A few years ago, the future of Reveal wasn’t guaranteed. The investigative journalism program (produced by the Center for Investigative Reporting) had built a large and loyal audience through public radio stations across the country AND was thriving as a podcast.
But behind the scenes, the organization faced a financial conundrum. At some points, they weren’t sure whether the newsroom would exist the following month. But let me save you the ups and downs: today, Reveal is growing again. Podcast downloads are up nearly 70%, thanks (in part) to a strategic change: adding a new show inside the existing podcast feed called More To The Story.
In case you’re not familiar with Reveal — and before we really dive in — here’s some info on the show:
Reveal is a nonprofit, independent, investigative radio show and podcast, which launched in 2013 and is listener-supported. It is heard by more than 1 million people each week across more than 500 public radio stations in the United States, and is produced by the Center for Investigative Reporting, which also produces the investigative magazine Mother Jones, and the podcast More To The Story. Reveal was a Pulitzer Prize finalist in 2025, 2020, 2019, and 2018. Read more.
I recently had a chance to speak with Reveal executive producer Brett Myers about how that turnaround happened. I wanted to chat because I find the story extremely encouraging AND because other media organizations, independent creators, and journalists can learn a lot from it.
Watch the full conversation above! And read on for my takeaways.
The Crisis Within Reveal That Forced a Reset
Like many journalism organizations and outlets, the Center for Investigative Reporting ran into financial trouble a few years ago. They had long relied on foundation funding (a model common in nonprofit journalism), but things became unstable in this arena. It’s important to note though, that the show was still doing well when it came to podcast downloads, radio reach, and overall audience engagement. Still… things were touchy.
Eventually, the solution came through a merger with Mother Jones. On paper, the partnership made a lot of sense. Brett outlined in our conversation that:
Reveal specializes in audio journalism
Mother Jones has a large digital audience
Their funding models complement each other
Their editorial missions are aligned
The merger gave the Reveal team room to rethink how their audio operation could grow AND the ability to keep making relevant, deeply investigated, and — perhaps most importantly — sought-after (award-winning) stories.
The Finding: Podcast Audiences Want “More”
When the merger came through, The Reveal team started asking:
What do our listeners actually want more of?
Brett and I discussed what goes into each investigative episode of Reveal: it’s months and months (sometimes years) of work. The result is incredibly valuable (and entertaining, impactful), but it’s also slow and resource-intensive.
And while Reveal will continue making their resource-intensive episodes as-is (because the audience is hungry for it, and the numbers suggest there’s more audience to find), they’re adding more. Literally👇
The Solution: A Second Show Inside the Reveal Feed
More To The Story is an interview-driven show hosted by Reveal’s longtime host Al Letson. Instead of months-long investigations, the show features conversations with journalists, thinkers, and experts about the context behind major news stories — happening now. An episode can be turned around in a matter or weeks, if not a week, so it’s much more responsive to (and in conversation with) everyday life.
AND, More To The Story, fits naturally with the existing show. Here’s the trailer:
Al Letson already ends every episode of Reveal with the phrase: “Remember — there’s always more to the story.” So… that became the name and the editorial concept behind the show. Rather than feeling like an add-on that just gets tacked onto the show, MTTS expands upon what listeners already expect from Reveal.
Why Adding the MTTS Podcast Feed Worked
One reason the show has been successful is that it wasn’t treated as a quick experiment. The team hired dedicated staff to build it — which was possible in part due to the merger with Mother Jones.
They brought on an editor, a producer, and they launched a series of experiments around the 2024 election figure out tone, pacing, and structure before committing fully.
The result is a new weekly drop in the Reveal feed. Two episodes per week. That’s a 100% increase of media-making. It was probably a huge relief that their experiments paid off. Read on!
The Result: 70% Podcast Growth
Since launching the new format, Reveal podcast downloads have climbed almost 70%. As Brett sees it, that growth comes from several factors:
more episodes, which brings about…
more opportunities for discovery, which brings about…
more engagement with existing fans
And with the new format, a chance to reel in net new listeners, which brings about…
more inventory for podcast advertising
And the editorial ecosystem now feeds itself. Interviews from More To The Story sometimes become segments in the main broadcast show, creating a kind of cross-pollination between formats.
Reveal was a radio show first. And when podcasting came into the scene, they began distributing via RSS. It’s interesting to hear Brett discuss how the team nods to both of their audiences. Watch the video for more on that!
What Media Teams (and Independent Creators) Can Learn From This Case
The way I see it, there are a few lessons here for anyone running a podcast or media operation:
1. Adding “more” only works when it’s the right kind of more
Many shows try to add bonus episodes, behind-the-scenes content, or “extras.” The Reveal team initially considered that too. But those ideas rarely expand an audience. They mostly appeal to existing superfans. Instead, the new show delivers new stuff.
2. New formats should feel complementary to the brand
More To The Story works because it aligns perfectly with Reveal’s identity. Investigative journalism is about uncovering deeper context. An interview show that explores that context feels like a natural extension.
3. You’ve gotta invest and test enough to make the idea work
A lot of media experiments fail because they’re under-resourced — and that doesn’t always mean a lack of money. Sometimes it’s a lack of time or an inability to see it through. Here, the team hired people specifically to build the new show — which made it possible to produce episodes as a separate effort from the main feed.
4. The balance: depth ⚖️ relevance
The investigative work that defines Reveal will always take time. But the team is now also producing more timely stories that respond to current events, giving the show greater relevance in a world of perma-news.
What Comes Next for Reveal and More To The Story
Brett shares that the next phase may involve expanding More To The Story even further. The show currently lives inside the Reveal feed, but the team may eventually release it as a standalone podcast. This would be a great way to attract a new audience (via new artwork, a launch announcement, new keywords…etc).
For a newsroom and team that came up against uncertainty, this is a case of a remarkable turnaround. During our conversation, Brett shared that media formats and platforms change constantly. But strong storytelling — and editorial strategy along with it — still hold strong. And in investigative journalism, there’s always more to the story. Signing off!
Thank you to Brett Myers for joining me for this conversation! And to Sean Wherley for coordinating it.
More (Links) To The Story
Read the latest from Podcast Plunge news and launches.
Lauren Passell and I wrote about what’s in our podcast queues for Podcasts We Text About.
Watch my conversation with Julie Shapiro of Team Audio Flux about the Circuit 07 submission deadline for audio creators:
Thanks for reading and watching!
-Arielle Nissenblatt
